Like I said in my comments on the original post, I might take some flack on this, but it needs to be said, especially with the influx of new conceal carriers and gun owners. This sub has always been a proponent of being the bigger person and avoiding confrontation to the most (reasonable and safe) extent possible. Some times even to an unreasonable and unsafe fault. The comments on the crosspost were overwhelmingly against this notion.If you haven’t seen the post, this probably won’t make much sense. Here is the video itself.First of all, a couple of things before people call me names or allege things: The young gentleman has a definite right to walking through that neighborhood, whether a resident or not. He committed no crimes (that I am aware of; if this is incorrect, someone please provide evidence), was not the aggressor, was not an apparent threat, and is the victim here. The larger male is clearly the aggressor, committed a violent crime (assault/battery depending on your state/local law definitions), had a large amount of aggressive behavior (will touch on this later), and was rightfully arrested (and his employer, the US military, is investigating as well).The AggressorFrom the video, you can see the aggressor is larger than the victim. He is also presenting all the classic aggressive body behavior and warning signs of escalating violence: yelling, swearing, threatening, “squaring up” and flexing his body, closing distance and staring the victim down, blocking exits and following the victim as he moves, and lastly, actually committing violence (shoving the victim).From the video, the victim also mentions the smell of alcohol. So in summary, you have a man who is agitated, not thinking logically, willing to commit violence (and actually doing so), ill tempered, and potentially drunk. Though unarmed (from what I observed), at that distance, one swing will likely end with the victim on the ground. From there this can easily devolve in a very very bad incident where the likelihood the victim gains the upper hand is highly unlikely.The PrincipleYes, there is the principle of standing up for yourself and not letting people bully you (especially when there is clearly a high probability of racist roots in this altercation). There is, however, a clear threat to the victim’s personal safety. I do not see how that personal safety is worth risking just to invalidate an agitated, ill tempered, possibly drunk man’s beliefs (who clearly is not open to change his mind).The aggressor is clearly agitated and not thinking logically, he already pushed the victim (willingness to be violent + chargeable offense so cops will be able to do something, which they did), and there’s nothing to gain from indirectly angering him more.Whether you’re in the right or not, be the bigger and smarter person and walk away. Your personal safety supersedes any principle you need to prove. This is at least my belief, others may disagree. I also say this knowing that any altercation I am involved in is automatically a potentially lethal on the fact alone that I am armed.Please take into account what you are willing to kill someone over. Someone trying to attack me unprovoked? Yes. Someone who gave me a laundry list of warning signs, shoved me, and verbalized wanting to cause serious harm to me? Make distance, try to minimize indirectly agitating him, stay on guard, and wait for officers to arrive.What could happen if you remain there in defiance of the aggressorSo to recap, the aggressor is capable and willing to commit violent, there is a size differential, and police are on their way. The only reason to remain there is to hold the fact that you can (which is clearly what he has a problem with and is angering him) and in the hopes he does something worse + gets charged and punished for it (which is a very vengeful and stupid mentality to trade justice for your personal safety).It is very likely that a situation like this would result in a swing from the aggressor or at least a forceful shove. Both these can easily result in you falling to the ground. If you are unaware, fighting from the ground, and being the one on the bottom, has a high probability of ending badly for you. As conceal carriers, if someone takes a swing at you and there’s that size differential + close distance, you’re hitting the ground and nothing short of lethal force is going to save you. And being on the ground, with a larger male on top, drawing and getting shots off properly is unlikely.Also, what happens if you go to the ground and your weapon is uncovered? And suddenly he takes it from you? Part of being a good conceal carrier and gun owner is having control of your firearm at all times (again, you make the altercation potentially lethal just by your presence). I guarantee your IWB holster is not a level II or III retention and as soon as an assailant sees it, he can go after it and easily gain access to it. Assuming you’re on the ground (not hard to imagine in this situation from the video), you’re probably losing that fight to control the firearm and now the situation is immensely worse.What I would have done and recommend others consider/think aboutSomething of note, you are legally not obligated to provide any private citizen with proof of residence, identification, or your conceal carry permit. Unless they are providing a service, own the property, or some other situations, no one (except police and some other situations; IANAL) can require you prove that you are a citizen, have a permit to carry, or live in the neighborhood. You can just walk away (regardless of their threats and claims) and be fine (again IANAL). Otherwise, call the police, provide the information to them, and have the police hash it out with the complainant.I would personally have swallowed my ego/pride, walked across the street, told him not to follow me, and said I’ll wait for the cops to come. If he follows me, my local/state laws allow me to pepper spray him as he is advancing to me + he already shoved and threatened me. If it escalates from there, it’s clear that I did everything I could do to deescalate and he willingly + consciously chose to escalate every step of the way.Hopefully some of you feel the same way. A lethal force incident has very very lasting harmful effects (even if it is justified). Understand what altercations/situations you are willing to risk taking a life for and potentially ending yours (with lawsuits, media coverage, criminal charges, etc.). Again, very surprised that overwhelmingly the comments on the r/CCW crosspost supported the victim remaining there, after being assaulted, with no foreseeable gain and very foreseeable personal harm.Tldr; Anyone caught in this situation should walk away, remain on guard, and wait for police to arrive. via /r/CCW https://ift.tt/3axrBUz
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